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23 October 2009 @ 01:21 pm
Probation  
All members must read this post!

Since this is an ELITE community, the mods continually want the best work to be featured in challenges. We're pretty easygoing and certainly don't ever want to appear high-and-mighty. However, there are standards in place. We want to make sure that the community's members put forth work that meets those standards.

With that said, I'm here to introduce the new probation policy. The mods all see the icons entered for every challenge. If we feel your entries do not meet the elite standards at least three times in a row, I will send you a private message to tell you that you're on probation.

What does this mean? Well, we accepted your original application to become a member here at elite_disney because we felt you made icons that met or exceeded our elite standards. However, styles or effort change all the time. When you're placed on probation, we want you to know that we feel your entries have been lacking. By knowing this, we hope that you will improve. Probation, generally, will last for the next three challenges that you enter. If we feel that you've improved, the probation will be removed. If we feel that you have not improved, you will be removed as a member and will have to reapply.

If you have any questions, please ask!
 
 
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linsadair on October 23rd, 2009 05:39 pm (UTC)
I think this is a great idea.
Allison: evil > sbvapor on October 23rd, 2009 05:47 pm (UTC)
I'm glad. :D
(Deleted comment)
Allison: cheshire > aiwlvapor on October 23rd, 2009 06:03 pm (UTC)
No, we don't have any rule like that. :)
Allison: cocoa > stockvapor on October 23rd, 2009 07:31 pm (UTC)
No, we don't have a rule like that. :)
(Deleted comment)
i'm not really a waitress...: movie. the emperors new groove.raiindust on October 23rd, 2009 07:19 pm (UTC)
I'm not sure I like this, at all. I understand completely what you're trying to say, but it's basically defeating the purpose of the application if you say, "Well, you can apply and be accepted, but you'll always have to watch your back, because if your icons don't meet our standards then you're on probation, so there."

I have a lot of problem with elitist communities, even though I love posting in them, I also feel that not enough mods take into account that icon styles and standards aren't always the same. Whose tastes will you be judging the icons on? Your own? And if they don't meet your standards, does that mean probation is to be had?

Not that I'm saying as mods you don't reserve the right to be able to say this, because it is your community, I just feel that there will always be personal bias in taste when judging icons, and to say to someone, "No, you don't mean my standard of taste, so we're going to punish you for it rather than praise you for the good parts of your icons, even though we did already accept you."

I see that at the same time as this, you've brought out a praise system, which I think is fabulous. However I believe that this system of degradation after a member has been accepted will instead turn people away. It's often scary enough having your icons judged to gain posting access, without the idea that every single icon you post is being judged, and if the mods think you've gone downhill simply because for a few weeks you've been trying something new and different from your former style (which should never be seen as a bad thing!) then I'm not sure how long I personally would want to be in a community that did that.

I personally was a little appalled, sitting here thinking, "What if I have some bad weeks? What if the challenged that are set don't really inspire me, yet I still feel compelled to enter icons that aren't up to scratch because the mods are always asking for more entries - what if they judge my icons to be bad based on changes I am trying to make to improve? What does that say to you about encouraging stepping outside a box rather than leaving yourself safely tucked inside?

Honestly, the last thing I want to do is be a bitch about it all - and it seems to have been decided upon, but I just wanted to voice my view (and it's probably different from many others) about the ruling. sorry it's so long as well =/
Allison: chin > ggvapor on October 23rd, 2009 07:44 pm (UTC)
This is a long comment, so I'm going to try to reply to each of the paragraphs so I don't miss anything.

With this probation in place, members will be judged on at LEAST six challenges that they enter. That's a month and a half. If all three of the mods think that for three challenges in a row are drooping in effort or no longer meet elite standards, then the member is placed on probation and told that we feel their making-skills are lacking. After we tell them, then they have three more challenges to improve. However, if, for example, a member posts two poor entries, but then just one good one, the board gets erased and starts over. The mods see every entry that gets posted, so we know when we see someone going downhill.

Our standards for probation are the same standards for the application. When we see those ten icons in the application, that applicant is providing with what they believe is their best work. If the mods think the work meets elite standards, they're accepted as a member. Why should they be allowed into an elite community if they're not going to provide elite entries? It's almost like their application was a false advertisement.

Again, probation isn't set into place for at least three entries in a row. And for those three entries, each of the mods, all three of us, must agree that they're not meeting elite standards. Also, again, we did accept a member based on the original application and the member should be held to the standards they presented in their application. Kind of like when going to college, if you get a scholarship you must maintain a certain GPA in order to keep that scholarship.

the idea that every single icon you post is being judged
I don't really understand this. When the icon is posted in a challenge community, any challenge community, it's being judged. As for new styles, I think someone would be able to perfect it or throw it out if it's not good within at least six challenges.

Again, I don't think you'd be having a month and half of bad stuff going on and still be entering challenges. Maybe a week or two, but if there was something serious going on, I'm sure the member would take a break. I mean, you know when something you've created is poor. As an elite community, that shouldn't be accepted. Again, if a member is accepted based on an application, then their entries should continually be as good as that application. Also, when trying to improve, I think it could be perfected within at least six challenges.
i'm not really a waitress...: tv. glee; quinn fabray - fiercest HBIC.raiindust on October 23rd, 2009 08:10 pm (UTC)
Okay - so what you're saying is - three challenges to suck, three challenges to go back to your old style to show that you've 'improved'?
I know where you're coming from. I truly do. Sometimes I see my own entries and think WTF was I thinking? But to tell people they can apply with the impending idea of 'probation if you don't keep your act together' seems a little Nazi to me. But then, it's just how I wouldn't run an elite comm, where I think every icon maker has their merits, and that should be encouraged if they've been accepted, not their faults.

My problem doesn't lie with the idea of elite standards, my problem lies with mods having their own ideas as to what is elite, and perhaps missing something that's a good thing just because of their own personal perception. Can you see the distinction? It's all about personal bias and taste, it really is - and that's why having three + mods is great, because it shares taste around. But someone might have amazing ideas, yet because the taste of the mods isn't the same, they can be scrutinized for it?

I understand that in submitting icons you are judged. Hell, posting icons at a community you are judged. But there's a different process between asking to be accepted somewhere and being told yes, we like what you've shown us, let's see what you can do and being accepted somewhere and being told, yes, we like what you've shown us, but if you do something we really don't think is adequate then you run the risk of being kicked out. And yes, I do understand it's over 6 challenges and therefore unlikely that a standard would dissipate that much over that length of a time, but it's still the matter of what you're implying with the rule.

As I've said, I do understand where you're coming from. But it just makes me as an icon maker feel uneasy, and thought you'd appreciate being told that, as opposed to me going off and ranting about it elsewhere, you know? But as I also said, its your community, and your rules. Hopefully I can abide by them.
Allison: collar > zdvapor on October 23rd, 2009 08:40 pm (UTC)
I just want to make sure that you understand what probation is. I'm still not sure you do, and I'm getting the feeling that the issue might be with elite communities in general, and not just this probation policy. That's also why before I used the metaphors about the scholarship and the false advertisement. I'm just trying to fully explain myself because I don't want anybody to feel uneasy.

I can't really and honestly expect someone to just believe me at my word, but I'm going to offer it up anyway: I understand the difference between what my personal taste in icons is (meaning what I use as usericons) and what I believe makes a good icon. I could go on and on about certain things that are done that, in my opinion, ruin an otherwise good icon. But I won't do that. I do not expect all the members here to make icons that I would personally use.

When I look at an application, I have a critical eye. I look for what's good and what's bad. (Similar to looking at fashion. Something might look awesome to me, but it's not something I could/would want to wear.) The same thing will be done when it comes to probation. I expect the members to change their styles and try new things. For example, one of our past challenges was 'Text'. Now if a member entered an icon and the text wasn't very good, that won't be a strike against them since the challenge called for a technique that not everybody uses. But if for three more challenges in a row they continually have bad text on the icons, then it becomes a problem. I don't want people to stick to one style. I change stuff up all the time. I want as many members here as possible to have as many different styles. But there are different/experimental sstyles, and then there are just bad styles. The same critical eye that looks at an application for all this will also be used in probation.

I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you don't think the members should be expected to keep to elite standards. That's why this community is here. That's why I created it and why, I believe, members applied to it. Let's go to an extreme for an example: Let's say you continue entering challenge with the exact same style for...a year. In the past, that style has won you awards here. Now over the course of that year, every other member suddenly stops trying to make a good icon, whether it be laziness or just new styles. They create bad icon after bad icon, and you are always winning every place and superlative because all those members icons are no longer meeting elite standards. Would that be fair? Would that even be fun for you?

I, personally, don't have any issue with elite communities. I created this one, but I only am in one or two others. I've rarely been accepted, and that's okay with me. The reason I don't have an issue with them is because I think it makes an even playing ground. If every single member is expected to meet the same standards, then one member won't continually win over everybody else. And in addition to that, I'll sound like a broken record, but I really think that when someone is accepted into an elite community, they should be required to maintain those standards.
i'm not really a waitress...: tv. glee; downtrodden boy i'll be your araiindust on October 24th, 2009 07:09 am (UTC)
As I've said, I do understand where you're coming from. But it just makes me as an icon maker feel uneasy, and thought you'd appreciate being told that, as opposed to me going off and ranting about it elsewhere, you know? But as I also said, its your community, and your rules. Hopefully I can abide by them.

I am not an idiot. I understand what probation is. It isn't, "Oh you're shit you're out" its, "Oh, your icons have been borderline, let's mention this and give you the chance to snap out of it." Yes, I have issues with anything with the word ELITE in it, but YES, I also participate in them because I LIKE the idea of standards. And I'm glad you think you're critical and unbiased in your opinion, because it's important to think that.

I don't doubt that if someone is accepted they should maintain standards, but - this rule implies people aren't capable of maintaining them. At least, that's how I read it. But lately it seems as if I'm reading everything wrong, so apparently I did with this as well. I apologise for being grossly inaccurate in my thoughts - next time I'll suffer in silence.

(And that is meant as a joke. Seriously. No hard feelings intended.)
Allison: colors > pocahontasvapor on October 24th, 2009 03:34 pm (UTC)
I guess the mods are here to make sure everybody follows the rules and, at an elite community, keeps the quality of the entries up. This probation policy will help us to do that. :)